Talk:Connie Ryan
Attending/Resident While it's safe to assume that Connie is an attending, this is unconfirmed yet by dialogue, promotional material or direct evidence giving GA's precedence of determining attendings: *Resident Reasoning **During surgery, she is seen wearing the light blue scrub cap, instead of the navy attending scrub cap or a personalized scrub cap that attendings wear. **Derek didn't seem to have confidence in Dr. Ryan's approach when complications arose during Meredith's vaginal delivery, and suggested for a C-section. **Derek took a tone with her by saying "Don't mess up" during Meredith's C-section. **Dr. Connie Ryan did not catch the post-op C-section complication that Bailey and Ross had to fix. **Supervision isn't a requirement when a doctor is a resident. Senior residents, like Callie during her residency, practiced unsupervised. Additionally, Jason Myers, a confirmed OB resident, had no OB supervision when he was performing surgery with Alex and Cristina. *Attending Reasoning **Dr. Ryan is wearing a variant of the pink scrubs shirt, versus wearing the pink v-neck that Meredith and Jason wore as residents. As there is more evidence to support that Dr. Ryan is a senior OB resident, I think it would be better if we left her infobox as "other" instead of "attending", until it gets confirmed. A C E(CONT•WALL) 00:20, August 13, 2013 (UTC) *Even though residents practice unsupervised, that is usually limited to uncomplicated cases. Meredith had a high-risk pregnancy with a serious complication. Nerdfightergirl (talk) 00:34, August 13, 2013 (UTC) **Callie's surgeries, when she was a resident, were almost always complicated with no ortho attending in sight. Additionally, Bailey's cases, while some were supervised by Webber, others weren't. Additionally, the scrub cap, which tends to the empirical evidence that separates attendings and residents, was not personalized on Connie. I'm just saying, to automatically assume she's an attending is, I think, wrong. And as the show is canon, we can't presume it, especially on the basis that she was unsupervised, when the show has presented plenty of times senior residents performing surgeries unsupervised. A C E(CONT•WALL) 01:40, August 13, 2013 (UTC) *The idea of having a doctor with a non-doctor infobox really, really bugs me. Isn't there ANYTHING definitive anywhere in the two episodes? Does she mention how long she's been a doctor or her level of experience? I mean, if we go based on the actress's age (which I know is a no-no), she's 49, so unlikely to be a resident. I haven't re-watched either of those (the only two episodes in the entire series I haven't seen at least three times), so I really don't remember. Nerdfightergirl (talk) 01:50, August 13, 2013 (UTC) **I know! It bugs me too! But it's one of those gray areas where she seems like an attending, but there's no definitive answer. Based on the fact that she wore a light blue scrub cap makes me believe she's a senior resident; otherwise she would've had a personalized scrub cap like Addison or Lucy. The only reason I watched those two episodes closely was because I was going to create her page; otherwise, I would've waited until season 9 was available because of those pesky Hulu commericals. I mean, that's the only definitive thing that I see: no attending scrub cap. So to me, she's likely a senior OB resident, like Callie was before she became an attending. She doesn't mention how long she's been an OB doctor, and she only gives a comparison toward a neurosurgeon giving her OB advice. So, I think resident would fit better. A C E(CONT•WALL) 03:25, August 14, 2013 (UTC) *The reason I haven't watched it is far more humiliating. I am a HUGE Callie and Arizona fan (In addition to being an admin here, I'm a mod on a Callie/Arizona Livejournal community.) and I BAWLED on the phone for an hour to my friend after watching Readiness is All on premiere night. Every time I think I might be ready, I go to start it and realize I'm so not ready yet. Intern and Resident, I agree, works better than attending for the information we have. If she should happen to appear in any future episodes, we can hope they'll provide more information. Nerdfightergirl (talk) 03:30, August 14, 2013 (UTC) **Or at least a shot at her lab coat. I mean, I would've honestly thought Elizabeth Chen was a resident too if Toonie hadn't spotted the FACOG on her lab coat. That to me didn't make any sense at all since Meredith and her were both interns together, and in Meredith's third year, Chen is an attending, when she should've been an attending in Meredith's final year? But then again, during Chen's premiere, she was listed as a "peds intern" and that's incorrect too. But I'll keep a lookout if here any anymore shots. And I started a separate Callie/Arizona convo on your wall. :) A C E(CONT•WALL) 03:37, August 14, 2013 (UTC) *Maybe additional proof for her being an attending: she's scheduled as the one of the two on-call OB surgeons, while all other listed surgeons are attendings/fellows. Tooniee (talk) 14:56, October 23, 2013 (UTC) I put the reasonings in a table, and some are between brackets, because I think they're not completely valid. *First, about the scrub cap, if we look closely, it's definitely made of another material than the interns and residents's scrub caps. It's a bit darker at the top, and I believe is it thinner there, which is why we can see the dark color of her hair. *Of course Derek was not convinced for the C-section, it had to be performed in a dark OR, so a vaginal delivery is preferable. (I just checked: Derek doesn't make any comments about the C-section in the short period of time in between Connie's suggestion and the moments the lights go out.) *Derek takes a tone with Connie, because a) he's worried about his wife which makes him nervous and b) he owns the hospital, so he can take a tone with attendings too. *It's possible Connie missed the bleed on the echo because she was only concerned about the baby, and Meredith didn't complain about pain or something (but to be honest, I have no idea if one feels pain when there's an internal bleed). The fact that she still missed it during surgery can be explained by the dark, and the fact that she was occupied with Mer's uterus and baby. Connie herself didn't know that there still was bleeding even after the uterus was closed, as she already left. *Though supervision is not required, wouldn't Meredith & Derek want the best for themselves? Okay, they might trust a resident to follow up on them, but performing a C-section in the dark on a high-risk pregnancy isn't exactly just following up on a patient. Tooniee (talk) 15:24, October 23, 2013 (UTC) There's also this line: "How many babies have you delivered in your career, Dr. Shepherd? A couple, maybe more? When I say a vaginal delivery is not an option, it's not an option." I think she's really trying to highlight her years of experience here. Tooniee (talk) 15:26, October 23, 2013 (UTC) *It may be a different material, as I am noticing the dark color at the top when I re-watched it, but it's still not a personalized scrub cap that all surgical attendings wear, like Addison or Lucy, who were both attending OBs. The scrub cap is one of the definitive visual aspects of the shows that differentiates residents from attendings/fellows: point was, Connie didn't have it. *That comma was in the wrong place, that was my bad. I meant that Derek wasn't convinced with the C-Section approach and was opting for vaginal delivery. Connie was pushing for a C-Section approach over vaginal. *I can see your point here, too, but it doesn't necessarily exclude that he's taking a tone with a resident as well. *Meredith wasn't feeling anything because of the local anesthetic: they were cutting into her for the C-Section and she felt nothing: she couldn't feel the bleed or complain about it even if she wanted to. A bleed like that where a surgical intern could find I feel an OB attending should've been able to identify. And it's not like the power went out during surgery: Connie knew, going into this, that she was going to be operating in the dark. She would've or at least should've taken more precautions. *The best doesn't always mean attending. Cristina, in her earlier resident years, were far better and far skilled than her peers in their 4 and 5th years. Also, Callie was the best at her resident level than Chang at his attending level. For all we know, Connie is a Callie-like rockstar resident. *And regarding that line, as a neurosurgeon, he would see very little to no deliveries because that isn't his specialty. Perhaps during med school clerkships/externships, and during residency he would have rotated in OB, but that line was more in effect saying that as an OB, who delivers babies all day every day, resident or otherwise, would have far more experience and gravitas in the course of action than a neurosurgeon, attending or otherwise. I think she was highlighting that it's her specialty and not his, so she would know better. Even as a senior OB resident, she would have four years of delivery babies and training than the far little exposure than a neurosurgeon might have. I'm just saying that because she wasn't referred to as an attending in dialogue, her lab coat wasn't in any shots to see if she's had any post-nominal designations, no navy scrubs, no personalized scrub caps, it leans far more into that Connie is a resident than an attending. A C E(CONT•WALL) 19:18, October 23, 2013 (UTC) So! After looking at 9x23, when Avery is doing the temp OR-board, Ryan is listed in OB/GYN section on the left size, where, given how the rest of the setup is, attendings/fellows would go. Now there are other Ryans listed on the board, especially on the resident side, but on a different service. Given this, I wouldn't have an issue with changing her into an attending. A C E(CONT•WALL) 19:31, October 23, 2013 (UTC) Just to add a little something: in 10x06, Emma Marling wears the same type of scrub cap as Connie did in 9.24. So in the future, we'll know that this scrub cap can also be worn by attendings. Tooniee (talk) 16:41, October 25, 2013 (UTC) :I don't think those are exclusive to attendings; those are temporary/disposable scrub caps (similar to trauma/neonatal gowns) because earlier in the prior seasons, I remember Bailey, when she was a resident, wore one too. I also remember Owen wearing one as well. A C E(CONT•WALL) 16:54, October 25, 2013 (UTC) :No, I don't mean that they're exclusive to attendings. I mean that we previously considered it to be a resident scrub cap in Connie's case, but now we have canon proof that it can also be worn by attendings. Tooniee (talk) 17:03, October 25, 2013 (UTC)